Tuesday, March 31, 2009

Debate With An Atheist

Long ago in the city of Baghdad, there was a Muslim empire. On one side of the River Tigris were the royal palaces and on the other side was the city. The Muslims were gathered in the Royal Palace when an atheist approached them. He said to them, 'I don't believe in God, there cannot be a God, you cannot hear Him or see Him, you're wasting your time! Bring me your best debater and I will debate this issue with him.' The best debater at the time was Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. A messenger from amongst the Muslims was sent over the River Tigris to the city, where Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was, in order to tell him about the atheist who was awaiting him. On crossing the River Tigris, the messenger conveyed the message to Abu Hanifah Rahimullah saying, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, an atheist is waiting for you, to debate you, please come!' Abu Hanifah Rahimullah told the messenger that he would be on his way. The messenger went over the River Tigris once again and to the Royal Palaces, where everyone including the atheist awaited the arrival of Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. It was sunset at the time and one hour had passed, but Abu Hanifah Rahimullah still hadn't arrived. Another hour had passed, but still there was no sign of him. The Muslims started to become tense and worried about his late arrival. They did not want the atheist to think that they were too scared to debate him, yet they did not want to take up the challenge themselves as Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was the best of Debaters from amongst the Muslims. Another hour passed, and suddenly the atheist started laughing and said, ' Your best debater is too scared! He knows he's wrong, he is too frightened to come and debate with me. I guarantee he will not turn up today.'The Muslims increased in apprehension and eventually it had passed midnight, and the atheist had a smile on his face. The clock ticked on, and finally Abu Hanifah Rahimullah had arrived. The Muslims inquired about his lateness and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, a messenger sent for you hours ago, and you arrive now, explain your lateness to us.'Abu Hanifah Rahimullah apologises for his lateness and begins to explain, while the atheist listens to his story.'Once the messenger delivered the message to me, I began to make my way to the River Tigris, and on reaching the river bank I realised there was no boat, in order to cross the river. It was getting dark, and I looked around, there was no boat anywhere nor was there a navigator or a sailor in order for me to cross the river to get to the Royal Palaces. I continued to look around for a boat, as I did not want the atheist to think I was running away and did not want to debate with him. I was standing on the river bank looking for a navigator or a boat when something caught my attention in the middle of the river. I looked forward, and to my amazement I saw planks of wood rising to the surface from the sea bed. I was shocked, amazed, I couldn't believe what I saw seeing. Ready made planks of wood were rising up to the surface and joining together. They were all the same width and length, I was astounded at what I saw. I continued to look into the middle of the river, and then I saw nails coming up from the sea floor. They positioned themselves onto the boat and held the planks together, without them being banged. I stood in amazement and thought to myself, 'Oh Allah, how can this happen, planks of wood rising to the surface by itself, and then nails positioning themselves onto the boat without being banged?' I could not understand what was happening before my eyes.' The atheist meanwhile was listening with a smile on his face. Abu Hanifah Rahimullah continued, 'I was still standing on the river bank watching these planks of wood join together with nails. I could see water seeping through the gaps in the wood, and suddenly I saw a sealant appear from the river and it began sealing the gaps without someone having poured it, again I thought, 'Ya Allah, how is this possible, how can sealant appear and seal the gaps without someone having poured it, and nails appear without someone having banged them.' I looked closer and I could see a boat forming before my eyes, I stood in amazement and was filled with shock. All of a sudden a sail appeared and I thought to myself, 'How is this happening, a boat has appeared before my eyes by itself, planks of wood, nails, sealant and now a sail, but how can I use this boat in order to cross the river to the Royal Palaces?' I stood staring in wonderment and suddenly the boat began to move. It came towards me against the current. It stood floating beside me while I was on the river bank, as if telling me to embark onto it. I went on the boat and yet again it began to move. There was no navigator or sailor on the boat, and the boat began to travel towards the direction of the royal palaces, without anyone having programmed it as to where to go. I could not understand what was happening, and how this boat had formed and was taking me to my destination against the flow of water. The boat eventually reached the other side of the River Tigris and I disembarked. I turned around and the boat had disappeared, and that is why I am late.' At this moment, the atheist burst out laughing and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, I heard that you were the best debater from amongst the Muslims, I heard that you were the wisest, the most knowledgeable from amongst your people. From seeing you today, I can say that you show none of these qualities. You speak of a boat appearing from nowhere, without someone having built it. Nails positioning themselves without someone having banged them, sealant being poured without someone having poured it, and the boat taking you to your destination without a navigator against the tide, your taking childish, your talking ridiculous, I swear I do not believe a word of it!' Abu Hanifah Rahimullah turned to the atheist and replied, 'You don't believe a word of it? You don't believe that nails can appear by themselves? You don't believe sealant can be poured by itself? You don't believe that a boat can move without a navigator, hence you don't believe that a boat can appear without a boat maker?' The atheist remarked defiantly, 'Yes I don't believe a word of it!' Abu Hanifah Rahimullah replied, 'If you cannot believe that a boat came into being without a boat maker, than this is only a boat, how can you believe that the whole world, the universe, the stars, the oceans, and the planets came into being without a creator? The atheist astonished at his reply got up and fled.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

first of all if an atheist said there is absolutely no god with 100% that person is a total idiot

it is truly a miracle that we r here
physics shaping up our universe maybe there is a creator behind it
but it certainly aint conscious, intelligent or wants us to pray to it everyday

how do i know
because if it is that intelligent & wants up to pray to it
everything it makes should point to it
y is the universe so big & filled with stars planet n stuff - sure its beautiful but what good does it do
it confuses us more
we r a tiny blue spec in the infinite universe with many other planets & we r the special ones
sure this is a great oasis but y all the other stuff? what purpose does it serve

& if we r so intelligently designed y do men have nipples?

did god put his artistic needs first instead of guiding us into the right direction?

there might be a person who dropped the first domino but its absolutely insane to say there must be one & make decisions based on it

Anonymous said...

Debating is HARAM in Islam, please stop this Brother Siru and return to the path of Allah

Abu Uthaimeen said...

lol, "Debating is" for gods sake would you pls stop giving out verdicts in things you dont know, where does it say its haram in islam? who are you to give verdicts?.

nice drawing and msg siru, really like the concept of it.

Anonymous said...

The atheist got up and fled because he realised how mindfucked the believer, and knew that there was no point in talking logic sense to a person who believed in religion.

If a person can believe that a God can exist without explanation, you can imagine how insane he must be, like Siru here, who is wasting all his time on dedicating all his art on THE GOD WHO WAS ALWAYS THERE without an explanation. Perhaps he just popped into existence out of nothing? Perhaps he created himself?

In modern times, atheists like Richard Dawkins never accept debates with religious people because of this fact, because the believer cannot think outside the box.

And in many instances, many religious people have opted out of debates, according to Sam Harris, because the religious person knows that when he accepts God without explanation, he was in fact accepting and "believing" in something as illogical and unnatural and mindfucked as 2+2=5.

Nile said...

Ok so bottom line is, there must be an assembler for anything that is assembled? For the sake argument, lets assume this has to be the case and this has to be the ONLY case.

Now then... for a boat to be there, there has to be an assembler. For a Universe to be there, there has to be a supreme being who assembled it, like our great debater from the other side of Tigris river tried to assert by wasting a good half of a day. Assuming this is the way it has to be, HOW do you still know its Allah and, say, not Jesus or Gods of Scientology or Ganesha or Ahura Mazda?

Oh that's right, Quran says Allah is and therefore it has to be.

Nile said...

Oh, and one more thing.

You have ripped off M.C. Escher's "Drawing Hands" concept in this 'artwork' of yours, but failed to credit him.

Anonymous said...

The allegory terribly fails when athiest asks, then who created God?
The mystery remains the same, very true and athiest believe that there are things we just can not explain yet.
Unlike religions, where they are certain of eveything, atheism does not promote certainty. atheists like Bill Maher promotes doubts, because He does not know for what will happen afterlife.no one does actually... and if we want to find out, we got to let go of this certaintly and intagible solace that religion provides for the moment and find ways through science to know all this.

fizan said...

In a strange ironic kind of way, your drawing points to theists instead of atheists. I mean, really, how did God come into being? If someone argues that He is eternal, then what was he doing before he created the universe? Was there a before? Time cannot exist outside the matter of the universe. Now I am confused. Hehe.

I was watching a Naik video on the subject a couple of days ago. He seems to think that its an illogical question because God, by definition, does not need a creator. I was left wondering, so who came up with this definition then?

Anonymous said...

Dr Naik is one of the last person i would listen seriously. He is more of a crowd pleaser! clap clap!!!
When there is no answer to give, the question becomes illogical. It is illogical to have the sustainer of the universe playing some gambling game with HIS creation (human) by testing who will pass and who will fail and like a children bedtime story, Hell and heaven. this is hilarious.

Dr Naik sometimes terribly fails when he tries to asnwer questions in financial grounds. the audiance is also so stupid they think since he is preaching on Islam, he should be able to asnwer on each and everyfield of human aspect from insurance to division of labor for instance. why ppl want some bearded guy to dictate on each and every thing in their life, how to pee, how to eat, how to walk, how to invest, how to respond on certain occassion. somem real zombies i see!

Anonymous said...

siru, can't u come up with a new argument for the belief in God? (Wiki has a list from which u can borrow). Just saying, coz the design argument is sounding a bit stale now after being used so much.

here one u can use:
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
and a chick tract:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp

why dont u be the muslim jack chick and draw some atheism-bunking comics? it would be good for laughs.

btw where's the source for this story? probably some abu hanifah fan cooked it up after hearing the boeing 747 argument. just like that meeting between euler and diderot.

Anonymous said...

Lie's are Haram is Islam even as a Joke, Shame on Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimullah... May Allah Forgive his sins and not bring us punishment for his evil act

Abu Uthaimeen said...

@anon 2:26 AM
watch what your saying, abu haneefa is one of th ebest scholars of islam. wyou have no knowledge abt islam and abt abu haneefa. your just a coward. how abt you come out and i'll tell you

Anonymous said...

watch what your saying, abu haneefa is one of th ebest scholars of islam. wyou have no knowledge abt islam and abt abu haneefa. your just a coward. how abt you come out and i'll tell you

Best scholar or not fabricating lies is one of the biggest sins in Islam.

Prophet Muhammad (May Allah bless him peace) when he described the four characteristics of a hypocrites one of the was "Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie"

Whether I am a coward is irrelevant to the topic at hand. The fact of the matter is LIES cannot be justified even as a joke in Islam, even if it was said by your father it would still be a sin.

May Allah guide us and forgive us for lies we make in His name. Amen

Anonymous said...

Abu Uthaimeen,

Even before Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) was appointed the Prophet Allah, he was known by the people as the "HONEST" one (Al Amin).

Whether Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimullah is a the best scholar in Islam is irrelevant, for he is also a man not an angel who is bound by flaws and sins.

Read verse 60 of Surah Az-Zumar of the Holy Quran;

"On the Day of Judgment wilt thou see those who told lies against Allah;- their faces will be turned black; Is there not in Hell an abode for the Haughty?"

Astaqfirullah! May Allah guide us keep and help us be honest and prevent us from telling lies. Amen

Anonymous said...

What was that you wanted to say Abu Uthaimeen?

Anonymous said...

Abu Uthaimeen,

Every (seeming)lie is not a sin!